SCUK euro/malta epic road trip

[Anton]

But a few of us are thinking about road tripping down

My health is a bit fubar, which is why I've missed a few of the recent meets - but I've got to do that if you really are serious!

It'd probably HELP my health to do something like that!

I'm a bit scared of fuel costs, so I thought maybe I'd get an LPG setup if I do an epic euro road trip. The diesel idea I had just didn't make sense in the end. The engines that make sense just aren't available yet (the 2015 B37 3 cylinder all alloy BMW TDI with 6 speed rwd gearbox makes sense, but where do you get one????? And deeeeeep pockets ahoy!).

Or we could look into getting a licence to distil alcohol. You're legally allowed to make up to 2500 litres of biofuel every year for your own use before you have to pay tax on it (refer to this and this for more info) as long as you keep records of how much you've made, and don't make more than 2500 litres a year, and as long as you don't do more than 25,000 miles a year on biofuel.

Making bio-ethanol is crazy easy - you just need drums, water, a sugar source, yeast, and a still (which is easy to make - a pressure cooker is basically a still, we'd just need a really big one that runs at low pressure). Problem is, it involves distilling alcohol, which is illegal in the UK without a distillery licence.

I'm just wondering out loud here, but wouldn't it be easy for us to all prep our vehicles with home-made endurance fuel tanks, make a boatload of fuel (out of anything that has sugar in it - I know someone who is a manager at a fruit packing plant, just wondering if I could get their discarded fruit cheap?) and then the trip would be super cheap, as well as super environmentally friendly.

As long as we "cut" the alcohol with 1% petrol, it's technically "denatured" and poisonous, which would make it legal.

We'd have to retune our carbs (and maybe redo our timing) a tiny bit to run it, we'd get more HP but less MPG's.

Any thoughts?

[ScottieJ]

Twiss is keeping accounts of his fuel costs....plus he's towing a heavy trailer so that we can estimate rough fuel costs.

I would rather keep the vehicle simple tbh....think about the cost of the lpg set up etc and then what happens if it has a problem and you are broken down somewhere no-one speaks english??

[Anton]

True, but running biofuel requires little or no mods. You can put the biofuel in drums if you need to (although I don't know what they'd say about that at border control...)

[RickUK]

In theory changing over to alternative cheaper fuels does seem appealing,but when you take into account all the equipment involved,changing this and changing that i honestly do not think much will be gained from doing this project.

The original diesel option on paper looked good but once everything was taken into account,engine change over,getting the gearing right etc that was found to be expensive and possibly cost more than buying petrol at the pumps.

At one time say a few years ago diesel was very appealing as it offered more mpg and was also alot cheaper than petrol,but as the average motorist drifted over to buying diesel powered cars the goverment grew wise to this and the rest is history as they say.

Please note that i am not knocking anyone or even your idea of going down the bio-fuel route,but although the allowances that we are entitled too seem great on paper about bio-fuels how many actually have taken advantage of it ?? i can assure you it would be a very few folks that have done so and i would think its more to do with trying it out as a project rather than actually saving money on fuel.

A friend of mine has a Mazda Bongo camper thingy that he converted to run on chip fat,it works and i would say that for small amount of miles that he does it could be worth his while on a small scale,but for long term and high mileage use the work involved would not really gain him that much.

He only has a small garage the same as every other folk,but by the time you have all the drums and equipment to store the old chip fat and the filter it or what ever they do with it and also the storage of the finished item,you cannot move in his garage.

Hope you do pull it off but gut feeling tells me it will end up being a no go project the same way as the diesel option,hope i am of course wrong.

[Anton]

In theory changing over to alternative cheaper fuels does seem appealing,but when you take into account all the equipment involved,changing this and changing that i honestly do not think much will be gained from doing this project.

All the equipment? You need a couple of drums and some pipe...

I'm not talking about biodiesel, or running on chip fat. I'm talking about bioethanol.

At most, it would require a few minutes of retuning your Carb/timing to run, and in theory you'd save several hundred quid on fuel.

[donkeychomp]

It's an idea matey.

I'm just glad bio fuels haven't caught on. If we all drove them the fields would be full of rape seed etc and we'd have nothing to eat!

If we do go to Malta I'm running on petrol.

Idea still intriguing though...

[RickUK]

In theory changing over to alternative cheaper fuels does seem appealing,but when you take into account all the equipment involved,changing this and changing that i honestly do not think much will be gained from doing this project.

All the equipment? You need a couple of drums and some pipe...

I'm not talking about biodiesel, or running on chip fat. I'm talking about bioethanol.

At most, it would require a few minutes of retuning your Carb/timing to run, and in theory you'd save several hundred quid on fuel.

Ok,i stand to be corrected,but if that is the case regarding bioethanol and its so easy to change over and with minimal outlay then the question has too be asked them has it not been more popular in the take up ??? i am not sure,but gut feeling tells me if it was a simple task and with the allowance that folks are allowed ie 25,000 miles etc then of course quote figures of saving £600+ per year.

Everything thing seems right and the figures do seem to stack up in the conversion of the engine over to bioethanol,but why is the take up very low.That is what i cannot personally fathom out.

Good luck with the project and really hope your health picks up very quickly.

[ScottieJ]

I'm intrigued about actually doing it but I think when driving long distance its best to run on an easily available fuel type. From what I have found I seem to be finding some quite contradictive points about running on ethanol etc. One site stated that you ideally need higher compression and timing tweaks. Also that it is less economical meaning that you will need to be carrying 100s kg of fuel on board, more weight means more chance of breakages and even less economy. Simplicity is the key to a trouble free long distance road trip in my opinion.

This link also doesn't make it sound that appealing

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Ethanoluse.htm

[twiss]

The problem is that you aren't allowed to take drums of fuel on the ferry or channel tunnel.
I always carry a jerry can with me and took it across empty and filled up in France. You could sneak a jerry can across but I think a barrel of ethanol might be a problem haha

The fuel on the continent isn't really any different in price to the UK.
I don't think it would cost you that much to drive an Sj by itself over. The tolls have been expensive, but again would be cheaper without the trailer. I think the tunnel under the Italian border cost €35

Its more expensive than flying but damn is it a great adventure. Never mind needing mid way clutch and rear diff replacement, its all part of the fun!

Petrol would be the way to go, not great up some of the hills, of which which there are many, and some of them massive, But without towing a trailer some of the roads would have been amazing instead of shitting myself the whole time haha

[Anton]

It's an idea matey.

I'm just glad bio fuels haven't caught on. If we all drove them the fields would be full of rape seed etc and we'd have nothing to eat!

That is true, I read that a single tank of bio fuel represents enough food to feed a person for a year.

the question has too be asked them has it not been more popular in the take up ???

Brazil runs almost all its petrol engined cars on it. I think that the reason we don't is North Sea oil and BP not wanting us to. Conversion to running ethanol (and back) is as easy as the conversion from leaded to unleaded was.

treally hope your health picks up very quickly.

Thanks!