pug 1.9td and ldv g box performance ?

[ScottieJ]

I just found some possible ratios, it's not actually that much lower in 5th, but still probably enough to cause issues as SJs do Rev quite high at 60mph,

Pilot gearbox ratios
1st 3.985
2nd 2.519
3rd 1.507
4th 1.000
5th 0.831

Samurai gearbox ratios
Top = 0.795
4th = 1.000
3rd = 1.423
2nd = 1.947
1st = 3.652

[Anton]

How did you calculate that?

I got 59mph in low, 94mph in high @ 5000 rpm, 3500rpm gave me 66mph in 5th. I used http://www.lepayne.com/gears.html

[ScottieJ]

How did you calculate that?

I got 59mph in low, 94mph in high @ 5000 rpm, 3500rpm gave me 66mph in 5th. I used http://www.lepayne.com/gears.html

By me being an idiot doing it on my phone and typing something wrong

I am not 100% sure how true those ratios are though? Pop on difflock and type LDV ratios into the search box and all you find is people who are unhappy with the gearing, then again diesels don't really have any high end torque so that's quite an issue in a vehicle that's geared to be revving at speed.

Also do you have any idea if the weight for that bmw derv is just the basic engine, I.e. Built block and head with no ancillaries? the weight might add up once everything is bolted to it, a G16 in the same state is 60kg

[ROBBIE]

Having an old pug with a 1.9xud turbo all I can say is its pretty gutless. Was supposed to redline at 6000 rpm but struggled to get to 5000 and even in the old pug, estate, it was happy to do 65 but wasnt keen on much more than that.
Was a good old lump though plenty of low down grunt and ran on what ever I poured in the tank

[d_r_1989]

Mine is an xud engine with a samurai box and 410 transfer box and it does 75mph on the governor and will happily hit the governor with minimal effort. Changing from the samurai transfer box top speed didn't change much but the revs it hit certain speeds did.

Definitely sounds like a gearing issue with the LDV box as they were designed to pull a van about and not do much over 50mph just like the old transits.

It won't matter which engine you use, if you keep the LDV box speeds will be the same. Unless of course you run a petrol engine.

Another thing is are you sure your hitting the governor at 60mph as mine sounds like it has due to noise but keeps on going. Also it could need abit of a tune, mine was a slouch before due to pump timing being out slightly. Now it's like a pocket rocket! But certainly not a motorway cruiser!

[d_r_1989]

Also th xud revs up to 4500rpm but with a tune will rev to 5000rpm, you won't get 6000rpm out of the standard turbos or fuel pump without upping the governor.

[waynesworld]

Its as i guessed then, the ldv gearing, its all i could of thought it was, just wanted to make sure before i decide on which engine to look at going with.
open to anything really, we will see, thanks guys for the info

[Anton]

By me being an idiot doing it on my phone and typing something wrong

Glad I'm not the only one who does stuff like that!

Also do you have any idea if the weight for that bmw derv is just the basic engine, I.e. Built block and head with no ancillaries? the weight might add up once everything is bolted to it, a G16 in the same state is 60kg

No idea, although I'd love to get confirmation from somewhere. BMW do put tech info in some of their brochures (which is where the 1:0.66 top gear figures came from) but I do not know for sure if it's 117kg. That info might be made up on the spot, or it might actually be lighter! It's a 4 pot all ally engine, related to their 4 pot ally petrol.

I think even if it's 150kg, it'll be fine in a Dutton. They often get cast iron V6's in them, which have to weigh well past that (the Essex is supposedly between 172kg and 195kg, cologne around 172).

I might try to get confirmation on engine weight, as 136hp and 204ft-lb is crazy, and I've just looked on autotrader and seen whole cars going for £chips - a crash damaged one might go for a song if you search hard enough.

But going beyond the weight of the thing, I'd be worried about all that torque munching the t-case, props, diffs, halfshafts. Even the leaf springs probably wouldn't survive that for very long if you had a lead foot.

It's a seriously overpowered engine for an SJ. Although you have to admit, it sounds like it'd be a lot of fun! It takes the 1490kg 3 series to 60 in 9.9, I suspect a 930kg SJ is going to be somewhat livelier...

And it's 60mpg in a heavy car. Assuming that the Jimny doing 15% less mpg than the Ignis with the same engine is correct, that means the SJ could, in theory, manage up to 51mpg with this engine.

Although low to mid 40's is probably more realistic, but that's still freakin' awesome for an SJ!

The gearbox is actually what really interests me. I suspect that the BMW engine is more than an SJ can cope with (it's a nice dream, but I don't know about the realities) but the gearbox?

Mated to a more sensible diesel engine (toyota all alloy 99kg diesel maybe?), it could make sense. Maybe. If the 1:0.66 thing is true.

The other thing I thought about was a Range Rover classic overdrive, but that's a lot of work, there are no parts out there, and I'm not sure how far off topic I've gone...

Its as i guessed then, the ldv gearing, its all i could of thought it was, just wanted to make sure before i decide on which engine to look at going with.
open to anything really, we will see, thanks guys for the info

For something bigger than an SJ, I would seriously consider the beemer engine. I think it could make sense. It's got to be as easy to source now as the XUD9TE engine, probably as reliable if not more so (especially if you remove the swirl flaps, the little screw in them can come loose and get sucked through the engine and make mincemeat of the turbo - later engines have a redesigned plastic one).

Other engines I've considered swapping into an SJ:

• VW CFWA 1.2 TDI. 3cylinder all ally, 75kg all up inc turbo etc. 75hp/120lb-ft. Rare though (too new, released in 2009).
• Toyota 1ND-TV 1.4 TDI. 4 cylinder all ally. 99kg all up inc turbo etc. 75hp/120lb-ft (99-05) 90hp/140lb-ft (05-08) 99hp/150ft-lb (09-current). 1999-2002 Yaris D-4D's come up for £peanuts now and then too.
• BMW M37 1.5 TDI. 3 cylinder all ally. ?kg. Different power outputs up to nearly the same power output as the 2.0 mentioned above, but it's not even in cars yet, so £££££. I'll probably revist this idea 10 years from now. Will be in the 1 series, 2 series, maybe 3 series (seriously!) and the Mini Cooper D. Should be very lightweight and powerful. Has 6 speed rwd transmission already mated up and suited to the engine (except mini version).
• Audi 1.5 TDI - supposedly a 3cylinder all ally TDI, but very little info about it out there. I should imagine it's very similar to the VW 1.2 TDI if not almost identical. Not officially even announced. Again, 10 years from now maybe...
• Zuk M15a ignis engine. 4 cylinder all ally petrol. You probably don't need to hear about that though as you're looking at dervs!

[waynesworld]

Sooo many to choose from for this Dutton, always the same with me and engine picking, upto now......Rover V8, Cologne 2.9i, BMW 2.5TD, Pug 1.9TD ( depends on a good G box).
Axles SJ with T box, Daihatsu fortrack axles with sj T box, Disco axles and SJ T box.
Or stick the Dutton body on a LWB Vit chassis, diesel engine preferred. BUT then i will loose the Tax Exemption for the Dutton as the chassis has changed.

Engine needs to be simply, no daft electrics, dont mind an single ECU, but thats it.

Bring on the new year, mite of decided what to do with them lol.

[Anton]

For axles, I would say forget the disco option and think Hilux if you don't go with SJ/Dihatsu. Disco axle shafts are famous for being made of a very soft grade of cheese.

SJ axles will stand up to a lot for their size, but I'm not sure they're really up for being behind any of those engines except the pug. I think that's probably the most torque you should expect them to cope with, unless you never use low range. Which would mean you're not offroading. Which would mean there's no point in having a t-case.

Which makes me think you do want to offroad the dutton at some point.

Why Dutton, if you don't mind me asking?